| Cross-Examination by Mr. Leibowitz A My
true name is not Mrs. Price. I am not Mrs. Price;
my husband's name is not Price. My last husband's
name is McClendon. His first name is Enna. I was
married to Mr. McClendon in Huntsville, Alabama.
I don't know how long it was before this rape
that I was married to Mr. McClendon; I had been
married to him over a year or two. I did not
assume the name of McClendon. I never went by my
husband's name. I had another husband, too. His
name was Henry Presley. I married him in
Fayetteville, Tennessee. I don't know exactly how
long before I married my second husband I married
my first husband. It was a couple of years. I
wouldn't be positive. I was married by a justice.
I cannot give you the date of that marriage. I
did not have any other husband besides those two.
I did not ever use the name of Presley, my first
husband's name.
Q Who did you start out to Chattanooga with
the day before-I withdraw that-you ever been
convicted of a crime?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: I haven't finished my question.
THE COURT: It sounded like it to me.
Q Weren't you convicted of a crime involving
moral turpitude-Look this way please, not over
that way!
THE COURT: Now Mr. Leibowitz, don't proceed
along that line any more.
Q Were you ever convicted of a crime involving
moral turpitude, under
the name of Victoria Presley, in the year
1927?
MR. KNIGHT: I object to that.
THE COURT: I doubt whether this witness knows
what moral turpitude is; I doubt whether half the
lawyers know it or not.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: That is on the question of
credibility.
THE COURT: Ask if she has been convicted and I
can then determine whether that involves moral
turpitude.
Q What were you convicted of?
MR. ]KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Your Honor just told me to ask
it.
THE COURT: No, not that way-you misunderstood
me.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: May I have an answer to my
previous question?
THE COURT: I sustained the objection to both
of them.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
THE COURT: You can ask her if she has ever
been convicted of a certain offense, and I can
then determine whether you can ask that kind of
question.
Q Were you ever convicted of the crime of
adultery?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. (To the
jury) Gentlemen of the jury, when a question is
asked and I sustain an objection to that
question, that question and aU that involves and
all inferences from it, is out of the case, and
not evidence in the case, and you must not
consider it in arriving at your verdict.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q Were you ever convicted of the crime of
fornication?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q Were you ever convicted for a violation of
the prohibition law?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q Were you ever convicted of vagrancy and
drunkenness?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q Were you ever convicted of any crime under
the name of Victoria Presley?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
A I wasn't working on March 24, 1931; neither
was Ruby Bates. I did not leave my home town
which is Huntsville, on March 24, 1931, with a
man named Lester Carter.
[Lester Carter is brought in.]
Q Did you meet a man named Gilley at the
trial?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
AI know Gilley.
Q Where was the first place you claim that you
met Gilley, on the train when you were coming
back-had you ever seen Gilley before that time?
A Not as I remember.
Q Not that you know of?
A No sir.
Q You hadn't spoken to Gilley in Chattanooga,
had you?
A I probably had and didn't know who he was.
Q Mrs. Price, did you speak to any person in
Chattanooga, just "yes" or
"no," please?
MR.KNIGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q Did Gilley bring you some food in
Chattanooga?
A Yes sir.
MR. IMGHT: We object to that.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection. Gentlemen,
she made answer to the question. That is excluded
because I had held that the question is illegal.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q I will ask you, Mrs. Price, where you spent
the night in-
MR. KNIGHT: I object to that.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: I am not going to continue this
examination if I am to be interrupted.
THE COURT: You are going on with the
examination, and I am not going to allow you to
be interrupted. Wait until you are certain that
he is through with his question, Mr. Attorney
General, before you make any objection.
Q I am going to ask you, Mrs. Price, if you
spent the night in Chattanooga in a wooded
section near the railroad yards?
THE COURT: I see that you have gone far enough
with it, myself, to make that question illegal,
and I sustain the objection to it.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: We except.
Q I must ask just one more question; don't
answer it until objection is made and ruled on by
the Court. Did you, there that night, in and
about the railroad yards in Chattanooga, have
sexual intercourse with one Lester Carter, or one
Gilley, in company with Ruby Bates?
MR.KNIGHT: We object to that.
THECOURT: I sustain the objection. Mr.
Leibowitz, that question was so palpably illegal
that you ought not to have asked a question like
that.
MR.LEIBOWITZ: I except to the admonition of
the Court and move for a mistrial.
THE COURT: The motion is overruled.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Your Honor sustained the
objection to the question? THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
Q May I ask this question: Isn't it a fact
that you and Lester Carter were together in the
very same jail in Huntsville?
MR. KNIGHT: We object to that.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: On the question of credibility,
your Honor.
THE COURT: I sustain the objection.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: Exception.
A Before I got down on the chert, I was hit in
the head with a gun. They hit me between my eye
and the top of my head; hit me along there
(indicating). I wouldn't be positive where they
hit me. It bled a little bit. it didn't make my
head swollen there. Well, it did, a little bit.
I don't know the make of any gun. I don't know
what caliber means. I don't know a .38 from a
.45. 1 didn't ever know anything about the
caliber of any guns at any time in my life. All I
know is that he had the barrel in his hand and
hit me with the other end. The barrel is the end
the smoke comes from.
Q Where did you find that out?
THE COURT: I don't see any use in taking up
time with that. I would imagine that anyone with
common sense would know which was the barrel of a
pistol.
MR. LEIBOWITZ: I want to except to the Court's
statement in reference to the cross-examination.
A He hit me with the . I don't know which
is the ; I reckon the handle is the butt. The
handle is the end, I know that. I don't know
which way the pistol was when he hit me. I
probably might have told you the other day that
it was the end of the gun; I don't know
anything about it. Whichever part he hit me with,
he hit me on the head between the eyebrow and the
top of the head, right along here (indicating)
somewhere. When he hit me, some blood came out, a
little bit. I was standing up when he hit me. He
didn't hit me; he didn't knock me down. He hit
me. They was all shuffling around me there. After
the man hit me with the end of the pistol,
which caused a wound on my head that bled a
little, I don't know whether he punched me or
not; I don't remember.
Q Way back in Scottsboro you knew something
about the caliber of guns, didn't you,
"Yes" or "No," didn't you?
AI just had been told what they called guns.
Q You knew all about the caliber of guns in
Scottsboro, didn't you?
A No sir.
Q Let's see; the very first trial you
testified in, in Scottsboro hardly a week or ten
days after this supposed rape, do you remember
testifying before Judge Hawkins?
A Yes sir, before judge Hawkins, I did.
Q Do you remember being asked these questions
and making these answers:
"That one yonder, Charley Weems? A.
Yes sir. Q. With a gun or pistol? A. A
pistol, a .45."
THE COURT: Do you remember whether you said
that or not?
A I probably did, judge, your Honor.
Q Now, in the Patterson case, I will ask you
if you were not asked this question, and make
these answers: "Q. What did you see this
defendant do in that fight? A. I seen him knock a
boy in the head. Q What with? A. A gun. Q. A
pistol? A. A .38." Did you say that?
A I don't know whether I did or not; I don't
remember.
Q Were you not asked these questions and made
these answers in the Powell, Robertson, Wright,
Montgomery, and Williams case: "Q. Did you
see the two men who carried the guns? A. Sure. Q.
They were both there? A. There was two that had
guns absolutely, a .38 and a .45." Did you
say that?
A I don't remember whether I did or not.
Q If you said it, was it a fact?
A I don't know the make of a gun.
Q You don't know a .38 from a .50?
A To the best of my judgment that is what I
called them. I heard them called that. I don't
know what they was.
I don't know how many men punched me in the
face- I didn't count them. I don't know whether
there was more than two or not. Sure, they
punched me in the face; they knocked my head
around. I wouldn't be positive they punched me in
the face; jerked me around; they slapped me once
kin'ly hard. I didn't say my nose was swollen. it
did swell up a little bit. My cheeks were swollen
a little bit. My lips were kin'ly cut. They was
bleeding a little bit inside. I was cut inside of
my lips a little. The place where I was struck my
lips were bleeding; they was kin'ly busted. I
don't remember about whether my cheek was also
cut on the inside. My whole face was swollen up
and bruised, black and blue kin'ly. I didn't
examine my back after I got to the jail at
Scottsboro after the trouble. As far as my
remembrance goes, I didn't find any blood on my
back.
Q On the trial before judge Horton, did you
testify-page 64 of the record before Judge
Horton-were you asked these questions and did you
make these answers: "Q. You lay on your back
there for close to an hour on that jagged rock
screaming? A. Yes sir."
Deposition from Ruby Bates
(Ruby Bates was not present for the trial of
Clarence Norris so she submitted a written, swom
deposition. The testimony shown in brackets was
objected to by the prosecuting attorney.)
A After we returned from the doctor's office
to the jail, there had been seven white boys
arrested at Stevenson, Alabama, and had been
transferred to Scottsboro. Lester Carter was also
there at Scottsboro jail. [Victoria Price told
the high sheriff, who was also the jailer, that
one of these boys, who had been arrested and
brought to this jail, was her half-brother.] Then
she told again that she was attacked and raped by
these negro boys. She told that to the sheriff.
She said that there was twelve of these boys.
There was not very much said about it that
afternoon, because it was late and that night
Victoria would not rest. I didn't know what was
wrong. She was scared and we was both frightened.
The next day we was examined again by the doctors
and there was a few scratches on our bodies and
there was a few bruised places. They was caused
by the freight train riding [because anybody will
get sore from riding in a freight train and
staying in a hobo jungle. This boy, who Victoria
claimed is her half-brother, also told that
Victoria was his half-sister and kept making
noise and kept trying to break out of the jail,
until they put him in the same cell with Victoria
Price and myself.] Then my mother appeared at the
jail. First she asked the jailer why that man was
in there with us two girls, and Victoria Price
was standing there and she answered ["He is
my half-brother." The jailer said he
wouldn't be quiet until he was moved into the
cell with Victoria.]. My mother tells the jailer
that unless he removes that man from the cell she
would see what she can do to him for having the
man locked up in jail with two girls, when it was
against the law. After the boy was removed,
Victoria said to me that I must remember to tell
the same story as she was telling me. She was at
that time telling me what all she had told the
sheriff. She had told the sheriff that we had
been raped and she made up the story of how we
had been raped, and she was telling me the
story.... We were then removed on Sunday from the
small cell to the large cell. There was also a
cage in the middle of both cells where the men
prisoners was, but there was more men prisoners
in the larger cell. The seven white boys that
were arrested was in this large cell. Victoria
Price would have conversations with different
ones of the boys that was arrested and placed in
jail for witnesses against the negro boys. I do
not know what the conversations was about, only
in one conversation she had with one of the boys,
the boy with whom she had claimed was her
half-brother and with whom she had been making
love affairs since she had been in jail, told her
that he was going to tell the truth about it at
the trial and that he was not going to lie for
anybody, her or anyone else. I don't remember
what he gave his name, but I remember that Texas
was his nickname. I know his name now, Odell
Gladwell. I also heard her tell Lester Carter
that he must tell that we had been raped by these
negro boys. ... Victoria Price reminded me during
all this time that I must tell what she did. She
said that unless I did tell what she did, I would
get her in trouble. She would have to serve a
jail sentence. [She was then expecting to be
prosecuted by my mother for carrying me across
the state line when I was under 21 years of age
and because my mother knew nothing about my going
from home.]
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