Leong

Whoa! So many questions!

CX

It’s just the first page. Firstly, we would like to know more about your background.

Leong

Ok

CX

Do you have any interesting things that you would like to share?

Leong

(smile)Interesting? This would take the whole day.
(laughs)Basically I think I would say I’m a typical zoologist or biology graduate from a local university. And the reason why quite a number of us did this course in university was that we had this love for animals. There were some who preferred plants so they majored in botany and people like myself basically majored in zoology. We had to take courses and we enjoyed taking those courses during those days when we got to see various interesting components and modules, so to speak, on various aspects of zoology like etymology, study of insects, ornithology,  study of birds, molatology , study of molars, etiology, study of birds. Aspects like animals’ behaviors; conservation, aspects like the molecular identification of various species and that entire DNA.  Those were very very interesting foundation courses, but of course, there is a certain limitation to that because all that can be quite theoretical to a certain limit beyond that is the practical aspect so we were quite fortunate we had practical lessons also at school and exposure. In fact, some projects allowed us to come to the zoo here to study. So, the next question is what happens after a typical biology, zoology or botany graduate comes out, gets his paper degree. He or she will have to look for the job naturally. The thing is, in Singapore, the opportunities for the graduates in biology to work in a related field, is honestly, rather stable: here, the zoo, bird park and maybe the underwater world in Sentosa or national parks, of course, which are in charge of the green areas all over Singapore but still it’s great for a university that turns out hundreds of graduates in that field every year. It is virtually impossible for one to get into this field. But for myself I didn’t let that come as an obstacle for me, I would fight for a job in this nature-related field, because this was my passion and I shared this passion with a few other classmates also. But the statistics showed that a very small percentage of us ended up in nature-related jobs. Other classmates ended up very predictable jobs, like teachers or selling insurance. And I felt is was a pity because these people had a chance to use what they have been taught or what they were trained in university. But never the less, come back to my story. In fact, my job at first it was at the bird park, it was really, a good thing. You know working with the penguins; that was so fun and so enjoyable. But a couple of months after that, I came here and joined the Night Safari. I had my time to go through the Night Safari at that time. 1 -2 years. That was really an eye-opener for me, working behind-the-scenes with the animals. It was so fantastic. After that I decided to furthered my studies, and do research, and so eventually I enrolled for a Master’s course and eventually converted to a PhD and I decided to work on tadpoles of Malaysia for my exhibition. So that’s what I did for 4-5 years, chasing tadpoles of Malaysia and finding out about their life cycle. Of course chasing tadpoles is not only just about tadpoles, you have to look for the frogs. Because chances are that you’ll find the tadpoles of that species. So along the way, other than chasing frogs, toads, you’ll come across loads and loads of creatures, lizards, snakes, turtles, terrapins, different insects, and different varieties. The diversity when you are out in Malaysia is just unimaginable. Every minute we stand, of course; some nights can be very tiring. Some nights can be very tiring, just standing out there looking for frogs. It’s very rewarding because you manage get very close encounters with certain species that can be considered quite rare or you have never seen before. And also allows you to take photographs of them and document their lives also. So I have personally been very much involved with explorations not just in Singapore but in Malaysia and other countries. Indonesia, Philippines, parts of Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and also of late at the Ristin School of Australia and also to look at the frogs there and study the ways in which local scientists were monitoring the amphibians. It has been quite a number of years and I hope that there will be more such monitoring activities and exploration and research to be done. And even for such a small country like Singapore with really very little forest left, most people would not agree with me but I personally believe that there is a lot of potential for research that can be done in terms of biodiversity, not just of frogs, but in terms of the animals without a backbone, the invertebrates, a whole load of other creatures out there that we don’t even know that names of, what more of their life cycles, their ecology and physiology. I think the future is still quite hopeful with potential for research in Singapore for students like yourselves, myself. We just to focus our attention on those groups that had been ignored for a very long time, but still because they are part of the biodiversity component of our forest ecosystem it is very good if we can document them, at least for a start just to put a name to the creature if possible and if that creature after the homework is done doesn’t have the name, then describe it as a new species if it truly is a new specie. So there is really lots of potential for nature work here in Singapore and on the human aspect, I think bridging the gap for members of the public, Singaporeans especially to make them realize that we are in need a suitable habitat for many countless species of creatures here in our forest and our coastal lines and coral reefs. Hopefully, we can nurture young scientists and researchers from this pool and increase that local researchers’ population for the next generation ok? (laughter)

CX

So, what do you feel is lacking in Singaporeans that we do not know that we have a lot of potential?

Leong

I suppose so yes.

CX

And also the lack of interest

Leong

Um I think the role of NGOs and other institutions like the zoo is very important and of course NSS or NATIONAL SCIENCE SINGAPORE is the largest nature NGO here in Singapore but there is a certain limit to the number of people that they can reach because they are only so small and the zoo likewise I think although larger, with more established staff and lots more fulltime people to work on the education bit, but still we are talking um how many …….about four to five million Singaporeans here on our island and there is so much more hope that we can reach to them so can you imagine if we can persuade at least one-quarter of our population that wow here look at Singapore, although we have so much buildings so much build up area around, but right in the heart of our island hundreds possible thousands of undiscovered, unexplored species of creatures that remain part and parcel of our ecology and the local heritage. And I think the battle will be won already; yes, there is hope for more appreciation and awareness among Singaporeans. We don’t want, we won’t, we can’t be too idealistic in expecting every single population but perhaps a fraction of these population, if they can be swayed and um persuaded that there is a fair amount wildlife and nature remaining in Singapore despite all the development and over the years despite the fairly small percentage of forest cover then I think it will Singaporeans having that much higher quality of life I feel cause quality of life isn’t just about driving fancy cars, isn’t just about living in a fancy condo, flashing a fancy credit card. I think quality of life is also living at one with nature and being aware what’s outside your window, what’s in your garden, what’s in the forest when you take a stroll through I think that in my opinion is really an additional aspect to the quality of life rather than the material benefits of a very modern society. I think we can come full circle and really look back and see wow! when that time Raffles landed at our shores practically almost 80 to 90 percent of the whole island was forest. Can you imagine the were tigers roaming around chasing after wild boar and deer? We have come a long way from that. For sure, we have improved our lifestyle. We have developed but okay we are not going to cry over spilt milk and say okay the tiger has become locally extinct. Let’s bring the tigers back. Oh the sambar deer has become extinct. Let’s  have more sambar deer back. I think it would be irrational to try and reintroduce the big fauna like tigers and deer back onto our mainland. They are lost forever. Let’s take a positive step and redirect our efforts to our remaining wildlife, be it a tiny insect the size of a pinhead (it is still like a part of Singapore’s biodiversity). So I think if we have a greater appreciation for even those small stuff those creatures without the backbone the invertebrates and I think Singapore would be a better place for naturalists like myself and if there sharing of information more publications on these topic it would be excellent.

CX

Okay so now, what do you think an individual like children or adults can do to save amphibians or to prevent the decreasing population of the amphibians?

Leong

Do you mean in a local context or an international context?

CX

Umm, locally.

Leong

Umm I think the first step which is very important is awareness which I think is what the zoo is doing and what Nature Society also does try to help in and this making the members of the public aware that a we are such a small island compared with say like in my talk, with New Zealand or the United Kingdom which has a land area of so many hundred times more than Singapore with less than ten species each in these areas. Here is tiny Singapore, little red dot on the world, with 27 species including the caecilians and that’s really quite an impressive number quite an impressive diversity add the fact that we have so little forest left. Our forest cover is only about 3%, can you imagine? That’s really a very tiny part of the whole island. That is only 3% but yet in that small patch more than half of Singapore’s amphibians are living in there and nowhere else and that means we really have to take care of these nature reserves. All the forest that surrounds the MacRitchie Reservoir forest that is around Upper Seletar, Upper Peirce, Lower Peirce - all these forests are connected somewhat and all these forests are very precious so these are the habitats of not just the amphibians but also of other creatures that the amphibians live with, the neighbors of amphibians. This habitat of the amphibians, the food of the amphibians - the worms, the insects, the bugs - all that live there, they share the same habitat and the snakes, also the birds, the owls, some carnivorous lizards - they also feed on these frogs so all these are part of the whole eco-system there in the nature reserve, and of course we are not going to do anything to disrupt this natural balance yet what our greatest task would be is to preserve this habitat as it stands as of now, and prevent any further encroachment, any development around the edges. We want to keep that reserved - that is why it is called a reserve - untouchable - and to maintain its integrity for as long as we can, so I suppose a project where we get taught by people like myself lets students like yourselves appreciate more about the diversity of amphibians. I think that is a very good first step. Then, the next step would be to, I suppose, try and perhaps nurture a new generation of subsequent generation of researchers that will play an active role, who study various species of amphibians and understand their ecology, their breeding behavior, and assess how endangered a certain species is through monitoring that particular species. We have prioritized and targeted various species  that really are on the brink of extinction on a local basis and have to try and see what can be done to prevent them from falling over the edge because to my knowledge, from my experience at least, I know that a handful of amphibian species could be gradually fading away without us even knowing! So, if we can recruit at least a pool of interested parties, be they students or members of the public, to continue monitoring certain targeted species, you will have a better grasp of where that particular frog species is heading, whether it is going towards the red or towards the black. It’s one of the things that can be done.

Kevin

Umm ok. So we would like to know which point about amphibians you think is most overlooked?

L

I suppose like I mentioned a bit earlier, the diversity, the sheer number of species that Singapore already has. I think that is one aspect which a lot of Singaporeans are quite ignorant of. Perhaps if you guys could actually come up with a questions or a series of questions and go around and ask the members of the public at let’s say Orchard Road or even just visitors of the zoo, to try and come up with a questionnaire and ask and one of the questions would be just to ask especially the local people of Singapore - you can ask foreigners also but it will be very interesting to see what kind of answers you get - just ask them at point-blank range how many species of amphibians you think there in Singapore. Of course, some people will give ridiculous numbers like 100, 2000 or what, but it will be interesting to see if you can get say a hundred to two hundred responses from members of the public. Of course, you have got to break it down to whether they are locals or foreigners and see if you can ask 100 foreigners and 100 locals and see what is the response from both groups of interviewees - that would be very interesting. I don’t know myself but it is something which I would like to know but my guess is that majority of them would be really ignorant and give some low number but on the other hand there are those that are well-informed and would give an accurate number 26 27 so that’s one option.

Cx

Actually we are going to carry out a survey today.

L

Ok good.

Cx

Asking the general public whether they know what is an amphibian.

L

Ok good ask that and ask also how does a frog call – Ya, how does a frog call - just tell them, ask them - so how does a frog call? And it would be interesting to see you know just categories all the responses and we probably will be surprised hear most of them say ribbit ribbit croak waaaaaaak whatever but like I have shown you this morning in the talk, there are hardly any two species that sound very similar to each other in their own respect. They have their own unique call and it is peculiar to that species on its own, so it’s almost as good as a bird as every bird has different kinds of calls - same for the frogs and toads so that one aspect of the diversity that is very very amazing which is also ignored by the public so try asking that question.

Cx

So based on what you said I infer that the level of awareness of the public on the plight of amphibians is relatively low.

L

I believe so but of course I hope that can be improved. I’m quite confident that with this year bring the year of the frog with the zoo taking the lead  in spreading awareness about amphibians locally and especially on a global scale I am quite confident that at least Singaporeans will sort of wake up and sort of sit up cause I don’t know whether you recall when I wrote an article in the newspapers err some time January or February.

Cx

Ya about the frog chytrid thing.

 L

Ya so with little contributions like that you can spread your  word out how amphibians are in real decline all along a lot of conservation bodies have used the very charismatic animals like the panda bear, tapir, snow leopard, clouded leopard, cheetah - nothing wrong with that, absolutely nothing wrong, but it’s just that its always the big mammals that are so captivating and no one has actually spoken up for amphibians which are always like so called the underdogs their only really visible at night and even so it take so mush effort to track down cause they are so secretive and so shy or so high-strung so I think its really fantastic that the respective natural conservation bodies have really put their foot down, put their heads together and made up their minds we are going to have 2008 as year of the frog and we got to pull our resources together not just expertise but money, time, effort  to bring the experts on amphibians and these zoo organizations together to make a positive effort towards raising awareness and if possible bring certain species that are really critically endangered in captivity so that they can be excluded from possible extinction and I think the reason why we are doing that is because they have seen enough we have seen enough extinctions already, for example the most classic case would be the golden toad, the Costa Rica golden toad Bufo Periglenes. Which is found in Monteverde Cloud Forest - it’s such a beautiful frog. The male frogs and females are different from each other and when they mate it just this spectacular display of color - in the rock pools in the cloud forests these are toads that only live in the mountain-tops and they are just so beautiful and scientists have only discovered it very recently in the last century but some time in the 1980s they realized that the population was taking a dip and while all the scientists realized that, they never imagined this particular population of toads would one day vanish entirely not a single toad was left , when the scientist went back to the same spot that it was breeding in. It was just such a big mystery and it was so tough to predict as there weren’t any other indicators but when a particular very highly localized populations of frog or toad disappears - you are talking about forever - and you can never bring it back and this is one of the many examples that has happened already around the world. So, basic things I’ve just said - put it in their fist and say enough is enough, let’s do something about and this is the result. Another classic example, very sad example, is the gastric brewding frog in Australia in Queensland - there are two species of gastric brewding frog which were only described in the 1980s other than the southern brewding frog they live in the rivers of Queensland gastric brewding frog is such a fantastic  frog because after the frogs mate the female will actually ingest the eggs into the stomach then the tadpole will slowly develop inside the stomach of the parent and it will switch off its juices and not eat for the next couple of weeks and the stomach will just shut down no secretion of any acid and all to digest its food and the baby frog live inside there as tadpoles, they will have stalk limbs their tails will slowly resolve. Everything will all happen in the stomach, all the brothers and sister will live inside the stomach - when it’s time to so-called hatch the adult will just open its mouth and poof! the baby frog will come out that was one of the wonders of nature of science was only discovered in the eighties and this amazing frog was so hot because by studying the physiology of the frog, it had very important applications to the medical science cause if a frog can consciously shutdown its digestive system that could have a lot of implications for people with gastric ulcers and gastric problems and how the genes or hormones and the chemicals and enzymes that control at that level so that frog was actually very very well studied from that perspective but for some strange reason or a couple of reasons both population of the northern and southern gastric brewding frog disappeared during the mid-80s or early 90s not to be seen again so although this is not a firsthand account off from me but when I read these stories I can imagine those scientist those frog experts and lovers first of all that were there at that site I have seen them in our generation, our time, some of them even described. And this scientist I spent some time with in New South Wales Australia he was one of the scientists who first discovered and described this species of gastric brewding frog so I can say this from a second-hand account I’ve spoken to a person who had described a species of frog and seen it disappear. Although I have seen the frog myself speaking to him and hearing the story from him almost breaks my heart because while here is someone who has described frogs in his time of youth and became a parent having lots of kids, and suddenly the frog he described disappeared from under his nose how sad and how tragic can that be and there are all these around the world are pieced together it comes to a very startling evidence that something is happening to these frogs and there is no denying it - you can’t ignore this startling statistic anymore. Of course, we hope this doesn’t happen in Singapore and I think we can play our part to prevent this from happening.

Kevin

Ok. Thanks for lending us your precious time for this enlightening interview and on behalf of my group, I would like to thank you for being here.

Interviewer

Firstly, to start off the interview, can you tell us a little about your background?

Mr. Biswajit

My name is Biswajit and I work at the Singapore Zoo. I am the assistant director of the zoology department here, so my job scope includes taking care of the staff who take care of the animals. I am also head of the conservation and research department for the Singapore Zoological Gardens. So we look at conservation projects, research projects, that we can fund and support.

Interviewer

Next, regarding the endangerment of amphibians, which point do you think is often overlooked by the public?

Mr. Biswajit

The point that is often overlooked by the public, several points actually, for me the most important is the chytrid fungus. This fungal disease called chytridiomycosis, why the public often overlooks it is because very few people, or hardly anyone thinks that it is a cause for concern. At the end of the day, it is just a fungus that just affects frogs. It is also something that they cannot see with the naked eye. So it is of low consequence or no consequence to them. We are very lucky in Singapore because chytrid has not arrived here yet. But what I am telling you is from the perspective of countries where chytrid has already gone through the country and decimated the frog population from amphibian populations. So these are places like North America, South America, in Panama, Central America as well, and also Australia. Another thing that is often overlooked by people is invasive species, invasive alien species. This means that species are not native to a particular country but have been released either because of well-meaning but not well-informed members of the public, sometimes accidental releases, where you have farms for food frogs like the American Bull Frog and these are accidentally released by restaurant owners or even the farms into the wild. So a lot of these species are very opportunistic and they are voracious feeders and are also aggressive. So they compete with the native species and very often this ends up with the native species becoming endangered and the alien species moving. Another thing, which is often overlooked but we basically as members of the public have power over, is pollution. Frogs, toad, salamanders and newts live in areas where there is clear and pristine water. So even things like ponds, lakes, streams, whether if it is in Singapore or other parts of the world, it is very important that pollutants do not enter this ecosystem. So even simple things which might help us in terms of pesticides and fertilizers, once they get into the water system, they can actually affect how frogs and toads live because they are able to absorb through the skin what these pollutants and the environment are, and this will eventually affect them.

Interviewer

In the Singapore Zoo, for the past years, in what ways have you tried to curb the endangerment of amphibians.

Mr. Biswajit

In Singapore, we have a total of 27 local amphibian species, 25 of them are frogs and toads. One of them is introduced, so its 28 in total. The introduced species is the American Bullfrog. What we as Singapore Zoo has done over the last few years is basically to raise awareness about frogs, but not directly through our exhibits. We only had about 3 exhibits in the zoo before we launched the “Year Of The Frog” program. But what we have been doing off-exhibit is to actually learn more about how to take care of these frogs. Even though we have only about 25 species here, we really do not know much about how to keep them in captivity, how to breed them in captivity, and also what requirements are necessary to successfully keep them and breed them. So we have been doing a lot of background work on this. In addition, if you walk around the zoo, there are actually a lot of water bodies, moats and ponds. We do not use pesticide in the zoo and we keep mosquito control to a minimum with the use of biological and environmentally friendly compounds. Because of that, we have actually created good habitats for native frogs and wild frogs to move in, to live here, and to actually reproduce here. You could say that it is not a deliberate effort but we have helped a lot in that way. We have also funded projects for a particular post-graduate student from the US to come to both Singapore and Thailand to compare the breeding behaviors of 2 supposedly similar frog species to see whether drought, dryness and global warming actually affects how easily they breed and their clutch sizes. So over the last three years, this has actually been what’s happening. We have show-and-tells at Fragile Forest where the keepers will take out frogs for people to get close to and understand more about them.

Interviewer

So what suggestions do you have for individuals like us to save amphibians from extinction?

Mr. Biswajit

As an individual, one of the most important things is to be aware of what the problems that frogs/amphibians are facing are and how you can alter your lifestyle or change the opinions of the people who make the decisions. One of the things is even as an individual student, if you come together, you are no longer an individual, and you become a group. So if you actually start a group of enthusiasts, and you were to take up this opportunity of creating frog-friendly habitats, whether if it is in the school, in a community park or even in your housing areas, to actually plan and put forward a suggestion to do a pond ecosystem which will attract frogs and at the same time, promote breeding. In addition to that, you can join a lot of clubs and societies to engage in cleaning up activities—not because its free labor, but cleaning up activities actually helps frog environment, because you really do not know what is in that plastic container or big canister that has been thrown into a reservoir or lake. It could contain chemicals or pesticides. So at the same time, you are removing potential pollutants. Most importantly, read as much as you can so that you can tell other people about it. You yourself, if you are interested in studying about frogs, when you go to a pond or a river or even a big canal in Singapore, no one stops you from actually looking at it and taking it back to school to study the development and metamorphosis. So promote that awareness as an individual. And if you see people doing wrong things, you have to stand up and be brave and say “NO”. What I mean is that if you have friends who keep exotic frogs as pets and one day they get tired of it and they tell you, “ Hey, I am going to Bedok Reservoir to release this.” And you as a responsible individual who knows about amphibians and their plight should stand up and say, “Look, you are doing the wrong thing, that is not a native species here. You should not be releasing it. Either give it to the zoo, AVA, or keep it because you already have it.” So these are the things that an individual can actually do.

Interviewer

At this point of time, as the situation is so critical, what do you think is the level of global awareness of the plight of amphibians?

Mr. Biswajit

For me, I would put the level of global awareness on the threats to amphibians at the highest point ever. Why? This is because this is the first time there is a global group of light-minded institutions, people, universities and zoos, have come together to stand and make that statement. So if you go onto Google News or other relevant websites and type in “Amphibians” or “Year of the Frog”, you will get numerous articles coming up. And these are happening throughout the world, from Singapore to Bangladesh, Malaysia, US, Europe, Australia. It is a global media message and release about what is happening to amphibians in the world. So that is what we can do as organizations that are concerned about conservation of amphibians. The next step is for that individual, like what we talked about previously. What is the next step for the individual? Does he act on his awareness? Or does he sit back and tell himself that others are already doing it? At the end of the day, it depends on the individual but I hope that human beings are a lot more altruistic and will want to make that change.

Interviewer

Do you think that in the near future, there will ever be a revolution whereby the whole world becomes more aware about the plight of amphibians and change their mindsets such that they do not do anything that can harm amphibians?

Mr. Biswajit

I am really hoping so but I think realistically it will not be possible because it will be very difficult for everyone to work towards a common conservation goal for amphibians because their needs and objectives might not be in line with what is required for such a conservation effort to take place. They might be aware about it, but because of certain constraints, whether if it is because we need to clear areas to create more land for crops to feed more people, and that goes against the preservation of amphibians’ habitat. It is very difficult to say that all that can be left aside. There are many things that play here but I doubt if we will ever reach that stage whereby we can safely say that we have conserved every single amphibian that we can. I would like to hope so but realistically, I think it is very unlikely. So it would have to be a continuous and sustained effort. Even if it is a small group of people or organizations around the world that continually sustain this message, and it is always an awareness message, and hopefully it will cultivate and develop more young people so that they can take on that role when the older ones have gone.

Interviewer

So after the first step, which is to raise awareness, what do you think is important to help save amphibians?

Mr. Biswajit

I think what is important is for us to support conservation projects, whether it is support from financial point of view—funding or even putting in people who are experts. You don’t become an expert just by osmosis. You need to go through this whole process of studying about it, being out in the field with the frogs, learning more things… … Everyday is a learning experience for a lot of scientists. I think the next step is for us to develop that interest in people so that they will come to the forefront of it. We have a very limited number of people in Singapore, even in this region, who are knowledgeable about frogs/amphibians. There are about six thousand species, and about one-third to half are threatened. Let’s say we need at least one expert for every single species out there. That will mean that we effectively need about six thousand experts. Unfortunately, we do not have six thousand experts. That, to me, is the next level. And we need commitment from people and countries. The fact remains that a lot of decisions that are made affect how we live, the ecosystems we live in, what is around us, and the development of the country. So as long as faces are given for amphibians to continue living, I think that we can still maintain their presence over a long period in a particular country.

Interviewer

If one day, Bukit Timah Nature Reserve has to be converted into blocks of flats for the benefit of people, do you think that the benefits of people have priority over the conservation of amphibians?

Mr. Biswajit

I think that we have to consider that very carefully because you mentioned Bukit Timah Nature Reserve. Bukit Timah Nature Reserve is a gusseted land area; so firstly, they have to make it officially no longer a gusseted nature reserve. And you would have a whole range of issues to discuss not only with people, but also with a lot of green groups. I am sure that there will be a forum thrown open as to whether it is really what we need and whether we have alternatives to it. If you notice, only 2% of Singapore is still green area with trees and where nature areas are still available. So we have to consider if that is the best decision to support the millions of people in Singapore. Is that the only place left to build the housing estates? If you take that away, you are not only taking away frogs, you are taking away a very rich natural and national heritage of biodiversity that is unique to this part of the world. So I cannot tell you whether that will be for the better of humans or for the better of frogs. It certainly will not be a better situation for us as well because we are losing a major green area that is also important for our quality of life. So my answer to you will be—it depends on what the situation is. And if there is an alternative, definitely we should look at all the alternatives before even deciding on such a thing.

Interviewer

So from what you have said, are you saying that the situation is neither calm nor very critical globally?

Mr. Biswajit

No. The situation is very critical globally, because certain areas that I mentioned earlier have chytrid fungus going through. So in those countries, the first thing they need to do is to either stop chytrid fungus, which is a challenge in itself, or to salvage frogs from the wild and bring them into a captive situation so that they will not be affected by chytrid fungus. So it is a critical situation in a lot of countries. We are quite lucky because chytrid has not been found to be very debilitating in a tropical, humid environment. It becomes very active and very detrimental below about twenty-three degrees Celsius at most, which is why it affects countries in higher latitudes and areas in high altitudes but it is a critical situation and we are destroying amphibians’ habitats throughout the world at a rate where we are not able to give them alternative hopes. So that balance is actually quite nice in Singapore. We still have native and natural areas. Our urbanized areas are also conducive for a lot of amphibians such as the common greenback, four-lined tree frog to inhabit.

Interviewer

In Singapore itself, do you think that the amphibian situation will eventually become as critical as the situation in countries hit by chytrid fungus?

Mr. Biswajit

Yes, I think that if we do not raise awareness, it can become a very critical situation. Maybe not from chytrid fungus but from destruction of habitat and also, pollution. So this is why it is a concern message that needs to go out. If you are removing one patch of forest, we should create alternative habitats. It is a very thin line between human progress and development and the destruction of natural areas, but we should not stop trying and trying to achieve that balance. In Singapore, we destroy more than we actually replace or provide alternative habitats.

Interviewer

Before we end, do you have anything more to add?

Mr. Biswajit

Yes, definitely. I think that it is very encouraging that you all from Raffles Institution have taken on this role to be ambassadors for amphibians, because whatever happened in the future must start now, and I am glad that we actually have a young group of people who are concerned enough to seriously think and talk and discuss about the plight of amphibians, showing that not all our work has been wasted. It has been passed on, hopefully to a group that can be more focused and can carry on with better work in the future. Thank You.

Interviewer

Thank you very much.